Quite often I leave the skins behind. You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Its all about the local conditions. Both skis have full metal edges and both have Voile release bindings and heel cables. It skied gloriously without the skins. For the numbers people out there my 2017 Objective skis in 171cm with SuperLite bindings weigh about 5.5 lbs/pair. Absolutely slower on moderate descents if your whole base is in contact with the snow. It's lighter than the Kom, lighter than the Annum, lighter than the Helio Carbon 88 and lighter than the S-Bounds 112. Ive found that the skis Ive owned for a while now offer more grip than before, probably due to my appreciation of good craft beer. Thanks, Dan.
Some skins are quite sluggish and heavy, like more nylon based bd skins. Noticed that there appear to be 2 or 3 other people on the internet that own the Voile objective, so thought Id post a review for them to get excited about. Too steep to ski down with skins and loo long to side step or herringbone on the way up. Once you realize how helpful they are, youll notice a million times where they would be a benefit where most backcountry skiers just flail along without realizing theres a better way. For a long time now, fish scale classic skis have been available for expensive (super light, fast) cross country skis. It is only in perfect corn (or a groomed ski area) where non-rocker skis would be preferable, and even then you would have fun with a rockered ski. Im looking forward to including a pair of these BC models in my quiver for sure. If you happen to be on the heavy end of things (for that ski) than you will have great grip going up (and be a bit slower perhaps, going down). I think it really varies depending on where you are relative to the skis. trees), rather than by the glide of the skis. Or, a short approach with mellow skiing. Id like a less side cut ski to complement my v6 BC and Ultravectors BC but the Objective is too short for me. That is not the only time you can get glop. Sometimes the exact same terrain that you did a week before with fish scales requires skins in different conditions.
I've heard that people feel like they're a lot slower on the descents - have you noticed that? Without the skins, Id just be crashing through the trees. It wouldnt surprise me, though, if we see it in a few years. Sounds like these would be pretty nice. Ive used them quite a bit on several difference long traverse trips and Ive never put my skins on even though I was carrying them. Softer skis with more curvature: a bit slower, but at least you can turn on them. That said, the 178 tracks well when touring despite being a little short, and still floats fine. Holds an edge, and is stable when you stomp on it, but its too light a ski for it to be very damp. The Objectives arent nearly this rockers, but I expect the shorter effective length will be a real asset in rugged terrain. I use BD glopstopper skin wax, but Ive still had super sloppy conditions where glopping on skins wasnt avoidable. However, if you have the right binding, you can easily step out, swivel the heel, and kick/glide. You can get by without them if you happen to misjudge the situation, but it gets pretty tiring if you backslide a lot, and are forced to push a lot with your arms, or break trail and make a lot of additional turns. But where fish scales really shine is when you are going up and down, up and down, several times. However, I do think the loss in glide will be more than offset by the gain in maneuverability. I did a 4 day hut trip last winter on this setup. Use the links below to share this content: Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 43 total), Live Webinar - Introduction to Map & Compass - July 2 @ 9 AM US MDT, This topic has 42 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated. The Objective BCs are a nice modern shape so they are easy to ski, whereas the Karhus had massive camber much more like an XC ski they were very hard to initiate turns with. I wanted to be able to lock my heel in to get more out of the downhill sections. I did cross the lake below this past spring which is maybe 6 miles long and didnt notice any issues, but I was also pretty tired at the time and not really in top kick-glide form.
What do you think? Are you able to talk about your boots/bindings setup as well, since that is also very significant as to how the ski will perform and be used overall? With my Atomic Rainiers I use BC boots, and with my other (skinnier) skis I use regular cross country boots. Seriously? Given how light it is, it is NOT damp on crud. Voile must have some magician or something designing skis because the small amount of rocker on this ski makes a huge impact. You could totally leave the skins behind as long as you had reasonable expectations for how steep you ascend. Or when youre skiing back out but there is a short uphill section that everyone side steps or bootpacks?
Their website seems to indicate that they do have rocker in the tail. In powder, this ski screams to the surface and the tips stay up top. As for backcountry traverse, I recommend getting these really short. Truth be told it is a light setup, so I think it can handle just about anything you throw at it, but you may need to ski things a touch more conservatively to stay within the ski's capabilities. If you dont need to ski anything very difficult, then skinnier skis (which can be driven more easily by BC boots) are the better choice, in my opinion. There customer service was also excellent. I am interested in using them (or something alike) for multi-day trips where I may habe to carry them as well some time, so lightweight shoes with soft sole would be very important. Just saying. @Dan Wow, that is a very light and nimble setup. Let us know what you think. Without the rocker and the lightness of course. by MikeK Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:09 pm, Post
Was so much lighter than my cohorts. There are people who mountaineer, day after day, in plastic boots though. As mentioned, they are easy to turn. As for a grip wax setup, I havent seriously considered this. I think youll like that ski a lot. What really caught my eye this year, though, is that a lot of these skis now have built in skins. I always thought it was due to my skis (having fish scales) but then I realized my brother, with the exact same skis, had the opposite situation. I was too heavy for the shorter skis, and while I would fit into the longer ones (from a weight perspective) I figured it wasnt worth the bother. Im really excited about these. No one races in them (because waxing is faster) but there is a market for areas like the Northwest. Reddit's OG off-piste sub for all things backcountry skiing/splitboarding. With Scarpa Aliens, Voile Objective BCs and light tech bindings Im at 5.0 lbs per foot. It has performed great on flats when kicking and gliding, and great on untracked powder. I dont really see the appeal though it seems like a lot more hassle for a less reliable outcome even if it can be better in certain situations. That was a similarly versatile ski, though is designed for tele and did not have any rocker. I dont want to give up performance in the powder by buying a ski with the wrong shape, so I really wish there were more fish scale options for powder skis. Backpacking Light helps hikers and other backcountry enthusiasts overcome their barriers to living a life outside in Wild Places. The shape of the Guides makes them require a lot of turn initiation effort, especially with the weight shifted back from wearing a big pack. If they made it in 184 and allowed Tele mounts without voiding warranty Id buy it. Perfect Northeast touring ski in my opinion, with plenty of applications elsewhere (hut to hut in CO, etc.). Also, Im approaching this from the perspective of a downhill skier that also does traverses, rather than the perspective of an XC skier that wants to go beyond the nordic track. With the right ski (not too fat, has a pattern) the approach is fun, with gliding and nice speed on rolling approaches. they stick out more) so when I use them I almost never use skins. Couldnt recommend this ski enough if youre interested in mixed touring. Since I ski only in the spring in the Sierra, I encounter mostly spring corn and often pretty wet stuff; but also icy in the mornings. Id have gone a few centimeters longer if I could, but, as you note, it tops out at 178cm. East, West, North, South, Canada, US or Europe, Backcountry or not. It is a trade-off though, as Serge said; going down tends to be a bit slower.
For the type of use I have envisioned for these (ambitious long traverses through diverse terrain), I find that my downhill speed is mostly limited by my ability to navigate through the terrain (e.g. I think this type of fishscales is a no-brainer on backcountry touring skis. Dredging this thread up from the past Dan how did those Objective BCs work out for you? I'm in no way affiliated/sponsored/or paid by Voile. My thing is spring Sierra touring on corn, mostly for the scenery and just to be out there turns are secondary to me. As soon as you take the time to put your skins on once or struggle up one small hill without them, fish scales would have paid off. Our premium articles include in depth journalism and insights from the Backpacking Light editorial team. Please, in order to access our website you need to activate JavaScript in your Browser !! I also found that the scales slowed me down more often then they sped me up on deproaches. If I was doing mid-winter traverses on moderate terrain then waxing might be more appealing. But again, that has a lot do with where you are relative to the camber. For example, in deep, wet snow, they are better than flat, stiff skis because you never submarine you are on top of things the whole time. Ive done tours where Ive passed much younger folks in lighter gears, just because they are spending a lot of time taking off and putting on their skins. So we switched to the much lighter NNN-BC. She's too much of a powder skier to ever agree to something as skinny as the Objective (which is a mistake on her part), but I think she could easily spring for a Vector BC after watching my basically sing with joy on approaches, while she slogged on skins. Slowshoeing, lift access, your recent park footy, mountaineering & non-snow wilderness adventures, not here. I havent paid much attention to how they track on level ground. Skins are fine, but are best when you just go up all morning, and down in the afternoon. I also havent noticed my rock skis glopping more than my pristine skis. Depends on heigh and weight for the length really. Any issues with tracking straight on the level? Stickers. But even here its very rare that Im on a slope where I wont glide with fish scales but would without them Ive never felt like my fish scales werent gliding on a surface where I expected regular skis would. Somewhat chattery as a result if youre in any sort of chopped up crud. As for efficiency, certainly fish scales add some amount of drag, so if your descent is purely downhill then they wont help. I know people who pick out a non-rockered ski in the Spring, but they didnt have the option of using something so light. But interestingly, I have never had your issue with older skis glopping more. Seemingly small amount of rocker upfront, with the predominant shape being the camber I mentioned above. New Live Webinar - Introduction to Map & Compass - July 2 @ 9 AM US MDT. Mech. Not too hard to flex (though going by memory as I havent flexed it that way lately). I toured in the first third with the pattern and put skins on the remaining 2/3 to the top of the trail. This is the ski I've been looking for for a few years now. I like skis that are like that. (Sidecountry, snomo, cat & heli bumps) sometimes accepted. I did not, because of the pattern. I dont know if youve skied rocker skis in anything but powder, but they definitely have their advantages in a range of conditions. I cant think of anything better for backcountry traverses. Any thoughts on what length to buy? Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. I just skied the Objective BC on a tour in the Adirondacks, skiing the Wright Peak ski trail. I was out at a hut the last few nights and on the approach up it is was raining. I'm already concerned for the future of the KOM - it had my interest last year, but now not even on my radar. I dont need much float for spring traverses, but I do need a nimble ski that finesse through tight trees. Voile ultravector bc owner here. Al - this could be your chance to get back under 10 lbs! This ski can hold its own in powder. I love skate skiing around Yosemite meadows, touring out to huts, and generally just destination skiing really fast. Conditions in which scales excel, and for which waxing is a nightmare. I have various skis with fish scales, and they are great. If youre doing mixed terrain with someone who is fully reliant on skins, you will end up using your pattern joyfully while they struggle with the decision on whether to put skins back on or sidestep/skate/duck walk. Compared the Karhu Guides (181cm) that these replace, they are much lighter (1900g vs 2800g), 2mm wider and hopefully far easier to handle, with more sidecut and rocker instead of huge camber. I always use Maxiglide on my bases, and it makes a big difference when the conditions are ripe for glopping which around here is fresh snow that is relatively warm. Even if youre just doing powder laps the fish scales are still so handy to have for flat sections, rolling logging roads, long approaches etc. I'd trust it on ice, but I would be wary of it holding an edge solidly if you really need to crank. Ive noticed that I move very fast uphill, but unlike a lot of people, I have to push my way downhill. The four buckle boot is a tad heavier, but I do not feel like I lost any range of motion. The only time you can notice them at all it on groomed runs, which are sparse in the backcountry :). I went with Altai Kom ski, Riva 2 bindings, and Scarpa T3 boots. I was quite ready to get rid of them by the time I passed them on. Glop just happens, and when it does I either push through (hoping conditions change sometimes they do) or stop and apply the goop.
bootpacking, side stepping). Youve got a great design mind. !How to enable JavaScript in your Browser, Post You're currently viewing a free preview of a member exclusive premium article. As the skis got more use, the fish scales got good and roughed up. I think gliding and slow descents might be a bit slow is all. You do need to set a more gentle skin track, but you can still ascend at a reasonable speed with these. I'm looking at other lightweight skis like the Blizzard ZeroG 85, BD Cirque 84 or the Dynafit Blacklight Pro and can't decide if the Objective BC would be too much of a one trick pony.. It seems like they only go to 178 when most Voile skis go a lot longer. Theyre a lot lighter (2270g/pr @ 178cm) than my Karhu Guides (2800g/pr @185cm), wider (84mm vs 78mm) and probably much less of a handful to ski. My choice on the binding was a balance of weight and ramp angle. They are just a nice, nimble ski, that works well. Its not super stiff. The fish scales are all you need so you can normally leave the skins behind. It still catches me off guard with how easily a little turn initiationmakes them go from straight to perpendicular in an instant.
Maybe its conditions related. I imagine if they werent my only skis and I skiied a lot less in them it wouldnt have been such a problem, but there is no good solution once they get scratched up since you cant resurface the scales. You should have very good grip going uphill, and be able to bounce your way down just about anything. Make sure you pick an easy-to-transition binding and boot with a lot of range of motion, so you can make the most of the performance that the ski offers. If I could afford to Id ad a pair of scaled skis to my quiver, I might, but Id be pretty selective about what trips I used them for and careful to preserve the bases. Trade-offs. No problem. Have them mounted with 22 designs lynx Telemark bindings. Points: 60, Latest This ski 10mm THINNER would basically be the Rossi Bandit XX/Big Bang. Certainly there are limits to the traction, but they are high enough that if you are setting the route then you can almost always choose a line that works nicely with the fish scales. However, still turns readily when skied properly. Love them! I think the fish scales are much more positive (e.g. I rarely got this with my fish scales. So, I took the plunge and bought the Objective for my long tours with occasional turns. Interesting to hear about Maxiglide. Given the small amount of rocker and long camber, it is not the most playful or turny ski I have. It kicks and glides like a champ. We are talking here of a complete fat setup under 6lbs including the bindings, at 178cm! My skins ended up drenched and glopping. I had a number of extremely frustrating days especially in the spring where these became basically unskiable. Slimmer and lighter than the Vector BC, but both wider and lighter than the old karhu guides/madshus annums, they are 5lbs for the pair at178cm, 117x84x102. So far as I know, this hasnt made it up to bigger skis (by these makers, or other companies, like Viole). at some point nothing will help, but I havent found a difference from old to new bases in that regard. Still some on sale at GearX.com and Steepandcheap for 25-30% off. by lowangle al Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:35 pm, Post Theyre awesome. Choosing the right pair of skins makes a huge difference though. So heavier than Ross but on a shorter ski. Ive used some thoroughly beat up waxless skis, and generally I found the old beat up skis still gripped well, and did not collect more snow than the new. Night and day. by Woodserson Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:02 am, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. Wild Snow has the only pre-release take Ive seen here. Also if anyone spends any time on these this season, post yourfeedback here. The weather is often very close to freezing, and varies during the day, which means that you would have to apply different types of kick wax several times. I have also skied them with the Scott Orbit. Great info, I'm interested in this ski, however still trying to figure out where it would fit in my quiver. UPDATE: Ok, so after a few months on the Objectives, I can only say that this is the best BC ski ever. Watch the Tarptent Dipole Review Premiere on YouTube: Backpacking Light community posts are moderated and here to foster helpful and positive discussions about lightweight backpacking. Combine that with the low angle of most of my travels, so that I only need my skins for short portions of any trip, and its waxless all the way for me. Fischer does have bigger skis that have both fish scales and special attachments so that you can easily attach and detach skins (Easy Skin) bus so far the trend of using permanent skins hasnt made it up to bigger skis. To me that is one the misnomers about the ski (they arent just for powder). Get our free Handbook and Receive our weekly newsletter to see what's new at Backpacking Light! If you do want a nice pow ski with fish scales, Dan, check out the voile hyper vector bcs. assisted tours into the bc, I gotta say, the more I digest this, the more ground-breaking it is. We do NOT, ever, run them across dirt or grass. Great ski, and the pattern is super grippy (though doesnt have any rocker). A few determined kicks is usually enough. Press J to jump to the feed. Of course, skills, familiarity, conditions and terrain all make a difference. Fischer, Rossignol, Madshus, Solomon and Atomic, all have skis of this nature (very expensive, very light, permanent skin). Any downside to having them while skiing is not perceivable, while the upside is huge. Even then if it is a shallow enough grade, I prefer the speed of fish scales. The boots I use are 5 lbs a pair. Why cant this be edited? Im a pretty good skier, but on a breakable crust those hugely cambered Karhus with minimal sidecut are a major handful. Add your own today. I had Karhu Guides before but these fish scales are a revelation because they have so much more grip than the Karhus. I ski them with the G3 Zed and the Scott Cosmos. We used to use leather boots with 3-pin bindings, but that got complicated when Scarpa discontinued leather boots for a while and we had to replace ours. Theyturn easy enough on corn (like any ski) but really get stuck in a rut on crusty snow. Personally Id go with the dps skis in a heartbeat if they were in my price range. I got apair from OMC Gear for 40% off, which now appears to have beentheir last pair. One of my favorite things about multi-day ski trips is effortlessly gliding for miles down long mellow descents. Gonna put them to the test at the Bob Open in a few weeks. It wont matter much on deep snow, but might in the Spring or if you end up on a groomed area. We encourage posts re: human powered uphill/downhill shralping, TR's, pics, bc gear, avalanche tools/techniques/training/technology For powder skiing, I badly wish all my powder skis had these fish scales. I figured toggling back and forth between ski techniques depending on whether I was inbounds would likely make me sloppy on both days. I really want a pair. Its hard to imagine conditions where snow would be glop onto fishscales but not to skins. by MikeK Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:43 pm, Post It's a very light ski, and also reasonably stiff for its weight. Please be mindful of our values and boundaries and review our Community Guidelines prior to posting. Imagine traversing where you get a bit low instead of side stepping up to gain a few feet, the fish scales do it effortlessly. Skis like that are often paired with plastic boots (A. T. or Telemark) just because they are pretty big and have plenty of sidecut. Im in Love with Voile fish scaled skis. My regular powder ski is a DPS Lotus 138, which has zero camber and is all rocker. I suspect that Vector is similar, though probably a little better in deep stuff and less on the flats. I havent been disappointed yet! It's just the best ski in its category. But it did work. You should really check out the Madshus Epoch or Annum. I think it will go a long way in promoting xcd skiing compared to the xcd stuff available since the advent of plastic boots and dh oriented skis. Anyone with more experience than I have any thoughts on how they may perform vs the XCD skis? I don't think you will have to be a freak to appreciate these. Eventually, my wife needed to put skins on her skis to tour out when the pitch dropped off. There is some tail rocker, no doubt but not a lot. I use skis that are not the fastest, but are pretty good on deep snow. Im second guessing getting DPS for my next pair of powder skis because the fish scales are so awesome. We pay for our membership. Low angled slopes are rare. However, if you're on something steep enough to be on your edges, I don't think the scales impact speed. The fishscales are wet in the sun, then they freeze in the shade. I do lots of approaches with little ups and downs. With a ski that lacks a pattern, you "endure" the approach for turns. Just remember, people have been skiing powder long before we had 6 wide powder skis. I have voiles, not scaled, but love them more than any other thing I've skied. Grip wax is usually a real pain in the butt on the west side of the Cascades or Olympics. Is it pretty flexible if you try to bend the tip and tail up? Likewise, in breakable crust, they can do the same thing. This feature requires an active Backpacking Light Membership. (107-74-94 if I remember correctly), "And if you like to risk your neck, we'll boom down Sutton in old Quebec", TELEWIKI - The Telemark Skiing Wiki Knowledge Base. Thus far, I have skied it in the Adirondacks, White Mountains, and Tetons. Just my two cents. by Johnny Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:54 pm, Post My experience was that a 2 buckle boot was MAYBE a bit too light to power the ski. Some of you have been hoping for a skimo/XCD hybrid ski for backpacking style trips in winter, and it looks likeVoile has just produced a new contender. by Woodserson Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:59 am, Post In my experience multi day ski trips tend to involve a wide range of snow (and not snow). Despite being a fat ski, theypivot so easily from the center that I can flick them sideways in a blink. The ski seems like another good offering from Voile. And when Id moved on to scaless skis but my buddy still had his scales, Id be forced to wait for him to catch up instead of just cruising. Real reviews by real skiers. The scales slow you down on flats, no question. Overall, the ski is a dream for what I want to do - long approaches that may or may not include cool descents or powder. On a rolling descent (or rolling terrain), I think fish scales are easily going to pay off over a climbing skin setup since they havevastly more glide than even the fastest skins (if you were to just keep your skins on the whole time), or since the drag losses are likely much smaller than the time lost putting skins on/off (if you were to put your skins on for the uphills) or since the drag losses are likely less than the effort avoid putting your skins on for the uphills (e.g. A longer length is only needed for shredding at high speeds, which is uncommon on traverses, whereas a shorter length is much easier to handle in those spring traverse conditions where youre bushwacking with skis on. Great discussion going here. So, when it hits ice, it doesn't get floppy, but it does get a little chattery, with some deflection. One thing worth noting in all of this is that there is an interesting trend in high end cross country skis. Reviews only please, questions can be posted as replies but new threads looking for opinions should be posted to the main Telemark Talk Forum. The ski just rocks at every segment of the tour. This was a pretty each choice. They have some camber and thus have a recommended weight range. We find it useful to spray the sole with some sort of non-stick which limits how often the snow sticks and balls up. My guess is the vast majority of longer distance ski mountaineering trips (like this) take place using plastic boots. Doesnt carve too well, but that isnt really an issue given what its intended for.
What a concept! I probably wont bring skins on future traverses and not using them at all on my last 3 even while having them. No need to convince me on the scales wouldnt take anything else for the Sierra spring. Thanks for your perspective on this - I've had my eye on a pair for long mountain traverses (Sierra High Route, Wind River High Route) as it does seem like the scales would save time over skin on/off transitions even if you're fast at it. If youre in rolling terrain and constantly going up and down, others will go so much faster on the downhill portions that they will net out ahead of you. There are basically three ways to propel you up a hill (well, four if you count skating): grip wax, fish scales, or skins. I also XC ski and I continue to think that this ski really tours comparably to a XC ski. Just the fact that they are 20 cm shorter than what most of us skied will make them easier to learn on. Examples of this would be when you're more or less flat on your skis on a cat track or similarly pitched descent. The only time Ive use skins with them is to add more drag, when Im skiing downhill through super tight bush/alder/willow. Skin wax is pretty essential for some trips where glopping can become an issue. I also want to second the recommendation of Maxiglide. I wish everyone would get into doing fishscales. Including some additional info for people that come across this post in the future. Because youre relying on the rocker to keep you on top of powder, rather than surface area through the whole ski, it does tend to push you back a bit, and, if youre not careful, you end up backseat on your heels. Needed to change There to their in my post. Just a huge smile shape. I presume the shorter ski + more side cut isnt as good/fast on flat, but I havent noticed much a difference.
by Johnny Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:39 pm, Post Ross if you dont mind, what length are yours and how much do you weigh?
- All-inclusive Resorts In Texas For Families
- Boat Tour From Naples Italy
- Bissell Proheat 2x Lift-off How To Use Hose
- 15 Inch Wide Nightstand With Drawers
- Pentair 263037 Manual
- Sct Bakery Boxes Kraft Paperboard
- 2002 Polaris Sportsman 700 Stator
- Security Exhibition & Conference 2022
- C-marine Dock Bumpers