My regulator on my Argon tank leaked thru the tiny hole in the manifold. It is just good customer service to do this and creates an impression of goodwill with the customer. Why do we even need regulators? Plus it is not a good idea to change fittings on the oxygen regulator to fit an argon or any other cylinder. A two-stage regulator will have a bulb on the back. How much flow can I expect to come out of an E sized tank that has a pressure of 900 psi? x][q~@2~Z$1l _U}$dwuo}|? Another solution may be to switch from a spring-loaded regulator to a dome-loaded regulator. I am using co2 to run a mig welder, at the regulator it shows less than 2 psi but at the mig gun 35 cfh (no orifices in place )what would cause this note we have 15 other welding machines that are set between 30 - 40 psi and the cfh at mig gun is close to what the regulator reads, On my 450 victor oxygen regulator when I open up the oxygen tank the regulator low side goes crazy the oxygen pours out of the safety valve what is wrong please and thanks. does this sound like bad regulator or did they possibly give me an empty bottle. All times are GMT-6. If you need to control pressure from upstream, then you need a back-pressure regulator. Blown safeties happen periodically. Is pressure rising beyond your set pressure upstream? I unscrew the "T" everytime when not in use. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Any concerns or suggestion what i should do in this case? I'm hearing mixed things from different people so I would like to bring this up in a topic, recently I purchased a 200dx syncowave that came with a gas regulator. It might look different than the one you have but they should have something that will work. it is definitly not any part after the regulator Terry. Your regulator supplier should be able to help guide you toward making the right selection suited for your applications needs. You could even go into a local welding supply and they might replace the gauge for just the price of the gauge. He had never heard of it either so I returned to the phone and asked the customer what he was going to use it for. I forgot to mention that it is a non-adjustable single stage regulator. @anonymous: If you have gas leaking from the relief valve you are wasting a lot of gas as well as having a safety hazard. Check local welding supply where you get your gas, See what they want to rebuild it. I cannot get the tube out of the regulator. Oxygen cylinders are filled to a pressure of over 2,200 psi and need a regulator to reduce pressure to 30 psi to cut steel. ironhorse64 (author) on October 21, 2012: @anonymous: Oxygen regulators have a different fitting than what an argon bottle will accept. This is why we never use oil on regulators. When I opened the tank valve the pressure came up on the gage like normal, but the flow gage slow started creeping up until it eventually reached the peg on the high side. I turn it up to where i need it(200 psi) and start up the machine, it will drag down 100psi. }m7~x4?n1_/~`\wua~~^zCx7}L wl*W/,,Mown i say buy a new one, for one not worth the safety issue, and getting one repaired is too costly noe days, unless its a two hundred dollar reg., the 50 dollar one will do fine, or pick up a low end flow gauge for 75-85 dollars.repairs should be done by trained proffesionals for safety reasons, unless your changing a nipple of something small like that. If you have identified that SPE might be impacting your set pressures, move on to Step 3. I have tried with a pipe wrench and with large slip-joint pliers. The second likely potential cause of unwanted pressure increases is the supply pressure effect (SPE), where a change in outlet pressure occurs due to a change in the inlet (or supply) pressure. You are using an out of date browser. Will stay at 200psi when the machine is not running. So many of my friends have the cheap Chinese ones and it seems like they are doing fine. is a totally safe liquid that is applied to places where two pieces come together. If you are unsure, you can work with your regulator supplier to identify the appropriate type of regulator for your process. Relaunch of Hobby Machinist Mentoring Program. It can have a little Co2 enough to register flow but not enough to show on the cylinder pressure side. _> f"G. To this day it is still my favorite story. It will not budge. On my mm130, I didn't close the valve for over 6 months and had no noticeable loss of pressure (forgot when I left it and didn't come back to it for half a year while I was away at college). If this is your first visit, be sure to If this is the case then there are finned flow gauges that you can plug into a 110v outlet to power an internal heater. This page was generated at 03:20 PM.
Your supplier should be able to help you size your regulator appropriately for your application. The application of the wrong type of regulator is a common mistake that can compromise your process. Back-pressure regulators can effectively control upstream pressure within a sampling system process linewhen set up correctly. ironhorse64 (author) on February 22, 2012: @anonymous: The pressure on the low side of the regulator will read different wile gas is moving as to when it is shut off. Is there a "trick" I should know about in order to get the tube out? Please enter your email address and your username will be sent to you. If you have found that you do have the correct type of regulator installed, move on to Step 2. With years of use creep will increase until it is excessive to free flow were gas flow is only restricted not stopped. Learning and practice does not always come cheap or free. That combined with gas lense torch parts may help cut down on gas usage and waste. Will an oxygen regulator work just as a test to see if bottle is filled close to proper psi.? How to Troubleshoot Common Pressure Regulator Problems, Fluid System Evaluation and Advisory Services, Sampling System Evaluation and Advisory Services, Process Analyzer Sampling System (PASS) Subsystem, Sampling System Problem Solving and Maintenance (SSM), How to Optimize Semiconductor ALD Processes, Selecting Materials for Corrosion Resistance, How Mechanical Grip Fittings Can Optimize Oil and Gas Assets, Tube Cutting Tools and More: Five Essential Fluid System Tools, How to Fix Common Grab Sampling Deficiencies, How to Flatten a Regulator Flow Curve to Reduce Droop, Back-Pressure Regulator Set-Up: Tips for Sampling System Engineers, Managing Supply Pressure Effect (SPE) in a Regulator. I mean, I put a flow meter on mine and check it, adjust accordingly, set it/forget it. still flowing and still reads empty Ive tapped on it everything, for a week now still flowing?? As far as the teflon tape, it is supposed to be used for threaded connnections going into the regulator body. This kind of pressure drop is also known as droop. I have done leak tests, I have also purge dirt out of my solenoid. Some places do like yours. These regulators keep the outlet pressure at a consistent level even as the cylinder pressure lowers. Victor AF150. That is one of the reasons they have different fittings. It will literally blow the input gauge apart. There is a rebuild kit that should fix the problem for $40. Honestly unless I hear compelling information, I'd rather buy them cheap and just replace them. Tank is around 700psi and my outlet is set around 12-14psi. Having problems with a high pressure nitrogen regulator. Or is it dropping below your set pressure downstream? Ah, misread "could it be" instead of "Should it be". Who knows, I would just check with bubbles myself and try to locate a leak. A 2 - 3 bps would be at 20 psi while a 1 bps is 40 psi. Remember to be careful, do not use oil, and replace gauges one at a time with the exact pressure reading gauge as the stock equipment. With small usage and large cylinder this could be the case. TIG uses a lot of gas and seriously if you are looking for bleed down, you're in for a long road ahead. Full cylinders are below 300 psi and delivery pressure is less than 15 psi. And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at. We have a nitrogen regulator and the male that fits into the nitrogen tank is worn out.. How do I change it? Checked flow coming out of regulator same thing little to no pressure or volume. I strongly suggest that you find an argon, nitrogen or helium regulator to achieve your desired results. zwS ~!CnPz[LJrS?Sk {l)/b6f00D`4a\ a0gQ&$911NQ[ /F""$FEH(OF)LR#g).KtC<9$[6"N7sB,1 E 'nFlr If your regulator supplier is knowledgeable about additional areas of fluid system operation, they may be able to help you perform a more robust evaluation to identify any issues. Look for any markings around the nipple or on the back that might have an LH or Left. (I have a wye with two small check valves for attaching two lines). Another type of regulator is called a flow gauge. Internet Explorer 8 or 9 is not supported by this website. That's why the regulator is freezing up, the initial burst of liquid evaporates giving you gas then everything fills up with liquid/dry ice making strange noises.
So, what happens when a pressure regulator fails or malfunctions? ironhorse64 (author) on January 01, 2013: @anonymous: No you cannot. The raise in LP is random, I find 50 - 65 psi in the morning and when coming home I find it at 40 psi stable. Learn how to accurately design and build a process line with a back-pressure regulator. The most common cylinders are 5 lb, 10 lb, 20 lb, and 50 lb cylinders. Next, identify the nature of your issue. Dunno lol, How big / heavy is the bottle? The first one worked great.
https://www.swagelok.com/en/blog/troubleshoot-common-regulator-problems. ironhorse64 is a welding expert and is adept at troubleshooting welding systems. In its simplest terms, if you need to control pressure from a source before it arrives at the main process, then you need a pressure-reducing regulator. These are just a few of its uses. If it is a cheap regulator just ditch it and get a new one. The biggest problem that a regulator can have is when the outlet gauge starts to rise and just keeps going until it is pegged. You might have a bad diaphragm in you regulator. The nut and nipple should seat without any Teflon tape. I would go to your co2 supplier or a welding supply in your area and ask them to hook up your regulator to a full cylinder and test it. You are lucky Hank. If it is a true CO2 regulator it should have a CGA 320 fitting already on the regulator. If these common issues do not appear to be the source of your regulator issues, a more complex issue may be at play. Ice is usually from the cold oxygen freezing moisture on or around the regulator. Don't really know much about regulators but there doesn't really seem that there is that much which can go wrong with them. the third one worked for about 5 minutes. HubPages is a registered trademark of The Arena Platform, Inc. Other product and company names shown may be trademarks of their respective owners. If you are interested in discussing any new regulator applications or existing issues you are experiencing with your pressure regulators, our specialists can help you achieve optimized regulator and fluid system performance. If you replace a Victor with a Guangdong Gas welding regulator, you now have a $40 regulator that you throw away every time it breaks. Dome-loaded regulators are more resistant to changes in flow and can help better maintain set pressures in applications where there will be many flow variations. What do you think is going on? My regulator seems to say its empty yet the pressure bubble still shows flow when the seleniod trips. The flow seem to max out at 4 or 5. Regulators can be rebuilt but those used on kegorators are usually inexpensive and more cost effective to replace. Within 12 hours, the gauges are back to 0. TIG is expensive, from the machines to the consumables. I am not sure if this has been posted before but we are having a problem with our Dual stage Co2 regulators. This takes liquid co2 from the bottom of the cylinder, as used for pipe freezing. I had never heard of it, so I asked a coworker if he knew. From "To Kill a Mockingbird". Research labs will frequently have this style of regulator in tandem with test equipment. %PDF-1.3 If it costs $40 to replace a $200 regulator, then you win. Millermatic Passport; Millermatic 350P, Dynasty 300DX TIGRunner, http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72rx/leak002.jpg, http://www.dmwtech.com/gallery2/v/welding/machines/gss/, If this is your first visit, be sure to Regulators take a high-pressure gas like oxygen and reduce it to a useable pressure for uses like oxy-acetylene cutting. It sounds like either a leaking diaphragm or seat in the regulator . You need to remove that pipe and put fresh teflon tape on it. You must log in or register to reply here. Crx, I have the exact same gauge set as you, when I close the bottle valve the pressure gauge slowly drops, takes an hour or so to read 0 psi. There's a guy here in Bakersfield who rebuilt my acetylene regulator and did an outstanding job, did it while I waited. Repair kit is $40. Apply it at the base of gauges, inlet nipple, tank nipple, or any place you feel needs to be checked. ironhorse64 (author) on September 22, 2012: @anonymous: The nut and nipple will not fit onto a liquid argon. I also notice that it is a British thread instead of a CGA320, while it connect firmly, I'm not sure if I should replace the British Nut and Nipple to a CGA320. Step 2: Determine the nature of your issue. ironhorse64 (author) on February 25, 2012: @anonymous: My first thought is that the pressure gauge is defective. All times are GMT-6. My take on it - NORMAL if you can find no leaks in your fittings. If the tank pressure is so unreliable, how can you tell how full the cylinder actually is? To trouble shoot, I backed my "set screw" (adjustor for low side) all the way out so nothing was coming to the low side. When it comes to finding a leak in high-pressure cylinders or regulators, do not use soap. When there is a high volume of oxygen used the body of the regulator becomes cold and the ambient moisture can freeze. what if my regultor always leak from the releif valve and always ice is accumulated on the ientire regultor mwhat is the cause? All connections are good and sealed. These regulators take a tank pressure of 2,200 psi and drop it down to where the gauge reads in "CFH" or "cubic feet per hour." A new regulator will have small amount of regulator pressure creep from set pressure while gas is flowing to slightly higher pressure when flow stops. If pressure is dropping beyond your set pressure, the most common cause is that your regulator is undersized for your applications flow requirements. stream 4 0 obj Even the spare is popped. Sounds like crappy Chinese reg with crap in it (some come that way.). Industrial fluid system processes rely on precise fluid temperature, flow, and pressure settings to operate as intended. @anonymous: There is locktite placed on the threads from the factory that make it difficult. As the CO2 warms it will fill the top of the cylinder with gas and the lower portion of the cylinder will remain a liquid until a time comes where the head pressure drops and allows more of the liquid to become gas. I don't know about bleeding down, as this could simply be the valve or something else leaking on the bottle. The above issues are just a few of the most common causes of poor regulator performance, but there may be additional factors unique to your application that can adversely influence outcomes as well. All rights reserved. That is a metal to metal connection. I just broke a second argon flow meter in just about that number of years. This is an easy fix.
I have an Acetylene regulator, got it from ebay. That's on a MM 251, MM 350P and a Dynasty 200DX. The British connection has a built in washer (white and quite large) which also came with a rubber O-ring (gasket). JavaScript is disabled. We have a beer kegerator and the beer is coming out 100 miles an hour. When I did that, the tank pressure gauge held for over 24 hours. Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. This houses a second regulator or a "stage." Never use oil on any gauges or regulators. Hi. There are CO2 regulators that do not have the float tube but use a dial gauge instead. 
CO2 is extremely cold. Droop is an issue for every pressure-reducing regulator. For example, a regulator that incorporates a balanced poppet design can help minimize the area on which the inlet pressure can have an effect.
TIG consumes gas QUICKLY. Over time gas flow will erode groove across orifice seating surface and across soft seal that mates with orifice. Now, my problem is that it's leaking so badly from the inlet connection thread. Make sure that it is left handed. They cost less than a repair. He replied "For my regulatorit says right on the gauge to use "EHN O" oil right on it." When they are drawing gas through they sound like a chirping bird and it get louder over time. It can be used as a shielding gas for welding, carbonation for sodas, dispensing beer, and even making dry ice. Yesterday my regulator on my MM175 was doing weird things. My welding supplier sent it out for a overhaul. Wow, great replies. When you say liquid argon I am assuming you mean a cryogenic cylinder since all other argon's are gaseous. Repair again, or just replace i ???? Either way, they will read flow rate in cubic feet per hour or CFH. Periodically the needles get bent, don't return to zero, or even get totally pegged and stay. Some manufacturers will use lok-tite. 
Just order up the exact size and pressure gauge as the defective one. Sorry to have missed your question. Snoop! Creep can be problematic and dangerous if your downstream components are not rated for the pressures that are creeping across the seat. What I usually do when I have a stubborn nipple is to push the nut back to the body of the regulator to expose the end of the nipple that goes to the tank then find a 6 point socket that fits over the end of the nipple. I can put it back on the threads, but will I run a risk of it contimanting the welds ? Given that I can't find it online, the answer to this question must be staring me in the face, but does the cylinder pressure gauge on an oxyacetylene setup tell me how how much gas in left in the tank? If there is a gauge that reads from 0-30 psi with a red zone after 15 psi that will be your outlet pressure. If you feel there is a leak use a liquid called snoop and it bubble where the leak is. Just hit the pedal and watch the gauge. When the solenoid is off (whole system off) , my LP raises. I have two regulators and three flow meters presently. Post flow is typically 10 seconds after you terminate the arc. The whole system is hooked up to a solenoid and when I unplug the solenoid, the Low pressure raises. The LP does drop back down to a stable 40 psi. @seodress: Thanks for checking it out and glad you liked it! If there is a leak you can sometimes hear it or feel it coming from the regulator. You might have to replace the nut and nipple if they are severely scarred from the wrench and pliers. Simply look for the bubbles. Remember: Do not mix oil and oxygen. W/A. Strange that you have so many of them. If the diaphragm seals completely, then you would be measuring the high side. When full it will read about 250 PSI. The tank pressure gauge seems like it is always almost full and then before you know it the tank is empty. It did a lot of good TIG welding, then one day I turned on the gas and the needle went all the way up no matter where the handle was set. Please use a more up to date browser. This leads me to believe it is in the diaphragm, low pressure gauge or my outlet valves. Explore alternative regulator options. it has been set on 30#. I installed the regulator on the tank with a new washer and cut the CO2 tank on and let it set the gauges. I live in the northwest and where I work we do the install for free and just pay for the gauge. Should gauge be replaced? I understand if I do use it, not to load it on and just keep it on the threads. Removed the inlet from my regulator and installed the one i bought online. If the flow gauge isn't able to warm the liquid to a gaseous state it will spit out small pieces of dry ice.
Sometimes gas will come out of holes in the body of the regulator or out of safeties that look like a hex nut screwed into the body. In the case of SPE, some regulator options can mitigate this phenomenons effects better than others. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker. My buddy up in Ks had the same thing. What happens is the liquid CO2 in the lower portion of the cylinder is changing to a gaseous state creating head pressure then it is used. Certainly soft, not brittle Any other suggestions on how to try and track down the leak? I just changed my argon co2 mix bottle with one from my local welding supply shop. You don't need to strike an arc. I was told never to use teflon tape. @jamikcha: If you mean it leaks where the nipple goes into the regulator you should have a piece of Teflon tape wrapped around the threads. They can be very tiny bubbles that look almost like foam from small leaks or larger bubbles from larger leaks. You are using an out of date browser. Most likely a dirty seat. It is not a good idea to run any gas into a regulator that has been used for oxygen.. Can I use an Oxygen gauge on a Liquid Argon Bottle for regulating. Argon cylinders are filled to a pressure of about 2200 PSI and your acetylene regulator tops out at 400 PSI. thx tman. If you look closely at a regulator gauge you will see the instructions "USE NO OIL." Regulators with two gauges are called "two-stage" regulators. It is cheaper and safer to just get a new one. A pressure regulator will read in PSI not CFH. Argon, Nitrogen and Helium all have the same fittings and regulators can be interchanged. If excessive regulator creep suddenly happens it is probably caused by dirt on soft seat or scuffed soft seat. You will likely see either a drop or increase in pressure downstream, and each of these instances can compromise the quality and safety of your process. 2022 The Arena Media Brands, LLC and respective content providers on this website. DO NOT use any soap that is petroleum based. It gives you a false sense of security seeing the tank pressure reading full then suddenly the needle drops to show that you are almost out of gas. Your ability to identify the cause of unexpected pressure changes is helpful in rectifying the issue before it becomes a bigger problem. I've never had one go bad (I crack the tank open VERY slowly so as to not shoot the ball bearing out the top of the plastic flow gauge.) The idea of a dip-tube is to draw all the liquid from the bottom of the cylinder, so if you turn the thing upside down you would be making matters worse try & get yourself a proper welding cylinder, done it with a fire extinguisher at a push you can buy a heater turns liquid gaseous lol. It may not display this or other websites correctly. If the pressure gauge does not show pressure and is bad they can replace it. This process is continued until the liquid is almost gone. @anonymous: If you are still having problems, take it to a local welding supply company and see if they can help. I did take mine apart and visually inspected for damage to the diaphragm, but it appeared to be ok. I've always wondered, what REALLY is the difference between a $200 one and a $40 one. There is a certain amount of oxygen residue left behind and can result in a fire. I ended up spending $70 odd on having Starrett repair a dial indicator. I think I forgot to fix it last time. Fortunately, it can be avoided with careful installation, upstream filtration, and the purchase of a spares kit with new regulators. new oxygen bottle hooked up regulator never changed the setting on pressure. I would have gladly paid $50 for a replacement. When I closed the bottle the line pressure would drain much quicker than normalmine typically has taken daysdoes this sound like a regulator issue, solenoid, any clues would be great. I have a nitrogen tank regulator that isn't registering the cylinder pressure. Did you buy the regulators at an auction? What you want to do is to weigh the CO2 cylinder when it is fullyou'll need to know the weight of the empty cylinder as well. @chuckwagonne: Most regulator pressure gauges will have two gauges on it. I bought a CO2 regulator and need to swap out the inlet nipple that's installed ( with a rounded nose ) for one that has a flat face, to fit the CO2 tank. Your first step in troubleshooting is to examine your process requirements, including system flow, system pressure, system temperature, process sensitivity, and system media all of which are important to deciding if you have the correct type of regulatorinstalled. Most gauges are 1/4" pipe thread and the 1 1/2" gauges are 1/8" pipe thread. Does the pressure drop back down to 40 psi when the solenoid is activated?
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